people sense in bill clinton that knack for connecting crass divisions. we're in an age of globalization, the greatest challenge in our lives and children's lives is are we going to be able to cross the boundaries and be friends and cooperate and make the world a better place. clinton, whatever his policy records, seems to many people -- and i think to nelson mandela, as well, as a guy who in himself naturally crosses the lines, cheerfully. and they formed a very close friendship. >> close relationship. we saw the pictures at the state dinner earlier with secretary of state clinton who went to south africa several times, even brought chelsea clinton. you were talking about mary robinson, as well, dr. frash. how did nelson mandela's equal right for all extend to equal right for women? >> i never saw a difference. >> i never saw him differentiate, his greatest tribute. he took everybody their own terms, on their own merit, and i think that he, you know, embraced all. so i actually never saw him treat women or men in any different way. >> did you see the ten